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| < Technology ~ AI |
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 Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:57 pm
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Novice
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 8
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Do we need AI to possess the functions of the unconscious mind to successfully simulate Intelligence? Without dreams our minds cannot work, so surely it would be the same for artificial minds?  Maybe this abstract thought process would allow for greater cognitive learning. But to get that under our power we would first have to understand the human mind and how we dream…for the job won’t be possible without it. |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:30 am
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Expert
Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 158
Location: Egypt
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| MHydez wrote: |
| Do we need AI to possess the functions of the unconscious mind to successfully simulate Intelligence? Without dreams our minds cannot work, so surely it would be the same for artificial minds? Maybe this abstract thought process would allow for greater cognitive learning. But to get that under our power we would first have to understand the human mind and how we dream…for the job won’t be possible without it. |
I totally agree.
Dreams are symptoms related to brain chemical reactions in reverse.
Daydreaming indicate that such reactions could be (are) bi-directional simultaneously.
Sub-consciousness is not the same thing as Un-consciousness.
While we are conscious we are subconsciously aware of being aware.
When sleeping we can and we do pass by a state of reverse biochemical reactions for building energy required for the state of consciousness while keeping the basic functions running.
To enter the REM stage we experience some release of energy which is required for the mental health during sleeping and restoring the wave-function equilibrium.
So how can all this help in the construction of AI?
We have to begin by focussing on the problem of awareness, and define it.
Where does feedback and response go into the equation?
Can reflexes be considered a degree of awareness?
Wouldn’t a machine need at least a memory to record the events of reflexes in a very special way to be considered being aware of the events?
Can we consider that within a memory array of a surveillance camera a continuously updated image is such a set of information that the camera is being aware of?
Analysing such visual data and giving an intelligent conditional response would make the camera behave like it was aware of what it is seeing, but an argument would be that it did not learn it on its own and that it was rather programmed by the engineer who learned on his own.
Indeed, a camera is not quite aware yet because such a system is far from being complete and self-organising.
This demonstrates that the issue of AI is not a superficial or simplistic problem and that solving it at depth demands an equal degree of complexity to that of intelligent beings.
Kindest regards.
_________________
Hemetis |
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:06 am
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Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 271
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I don't think dreams mean anything.
I know that you can remember better
after a good night's sleep.
So I know they serve some function.
I have to ask what are dreams doing?
They are self generated visual and
I supose audio stimuli.
So are they near/in the visual cortex?
We are seing something.
The same with hearing something
in a dream.
I have heard we have 13 visual centers
in the brain. Maybe dreams have their
own!
I think the answer to this shall be
rather interesting indeed! |
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| Posted:
Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:48 am
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Mentor
Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 94
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| HEMETIS wrote: |
So how can all this help in the construction of AI?
We have to begin by focussing on the problem of awareness, and define it.
Where does feedback and response go into the equation?
Can reflexes be considered a degree of awareness?
Wouldn’t a machine need at least a memory to record the events of reflexes in a very special way to be considered being aware of the events?
Can we consider that within a memory array of a surveillance camera a continuously updated image is such a set of information that the camera is being aware of?
Analysing such visual data and giving an intelligent conditional response would make the camera behave like it was aware of what it is seeing, but an argument would be that it did not learn it on its own and that it was rather programmed by the engineer who learned on his own.
Indeed, a camera is not quite aware yet because such a system is far from being complete and self-organising.
This demonstrates that the issue of AI is not a superficial or simplistic problem and that solving it at depth demands an equal degree of complexity to that of intelligent beings.
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What comes to mind with your example is a condition known as blind site. In such a condition a person can track objects with their eyes but they themselves are not aware of the object, they literally say they see nothing!
Also awareness is very much about memory. People who have had extreme damage to their hippocampus loose their capacity for short-term memory. They cannot learn anything new nor are they aware of what happens after the moment something happens even though they may have responded to a question or some other stimuli.
It would seem that awareness has several attributes to it. One is the ability to recall what has just happened. Remember every aspect of our lives is really only fact to us after it has happened; we operate on data that has already transpired. This is true even of our unconscious mind. The seconded IMHO is the qualia of what is happening. In other words the feed back from the limbic system and Amygdala provide a feedback signal to the state of affairs. With qualia we have the sense of feeling what is happening from an emotional context. The two components formalize into an emotional arbitration system competing on the basis of qualia. Note that even what might be comparatively unemotional is still a state of emotion it would just be considered a lower qualia state in the arbitration system. So if you had to choose between a painful emotional state and a non-emotional state the choice is obvious. The arbitration process can be made more complex by introducing desensitizing processes that put the brakes on qualia to prevent compulsive behavior. Qualia also provides the motivation for our every behavior.
In other words to be aware we must be emotionally wired and so too would AI if it is to be anything like us... |
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| Posted:
Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:25 am
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Expert
Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 158
Location: Egypt
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Frankinstien,
that was a very nice post. 
Keep it up.
_________________
Hemetis |
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| Posted:
Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:53 am
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Moderator
Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 271
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I like Spock. He is unemotionally wired! 
Do you really have to feel alive to really be living?
And if I was ten feet tall would I need to feel ten feet tall? |
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| Posted:
Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:00 pm
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 158
Location: Egypt
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| Nick wrote: |
I like Spock. He is unemotionally wired!
Do you really have to feel alive to really be living?
And if I was ten feet tall would I need to feel ten feet tall? |
Yes.
_________________
Hemetis |
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