Regarding: "So since time is not a dimension in the same context as a spatial dimension one can not bend two points in space and return to a past event."
There is a physicist by the name of Ronald Mallett, who is actually trying to distort the association in time and space, this would in theory anyway, actually allow for travel to the past. With this theory you substitute one of the dimensions of space, for that of time, which may allow 2 dimensional exdperiences of time travel. Although Mr Mallett, doesen't think you can travel back to a point before the time machine would be built, he doesn't seem to have a problem with the concept of altering a past event.
Personally I have issues with the idea that you can't travel back to a point before the time machine was built, as it may cause more theoretical problems, than what it solves, but the rest of his argument may be legitiment!! I shall give my reasons for this in another post.
As for the Einstein situation, in his view of the universe it is possible for time warps to occur, where a person actually ends up in the past. My understanding of Physics is not brilliant so I quote other people to a certain extent, when discussing opinions, but I do feel that there is some optimism for time travel. If Backward Causation is real then so might be the chances of us actually accessing the past at some point.
There is a physicist by the name of Ronald Mallett, who is actually trying to distort the association in time and space, this would in theory anyway, actually allow for travel to the past. With this theory you substitute one of the dimensions of space, for that of time, which may allow 2 dimensional exdperiences of time travel. Although Mr Mallett, doesen't think you can travel back to a point before the time machine would be built, he doesn't seem to have a problem with the concept of altering a past event.
The problem here is that any configuration of matter at any particular moment is altered, e.g. An electron that has been entangled with another electron has a particular state despite that the electron has not been measured. In effect the electron has a state that is indifferent to any of its attributes. If and when the electron losses it’s entangled state there is no way to know if the electron ever was entangled! The information as to the electrons previous state is lost forever. If you believe that by bending space-time you can return to the past you are effectively stating that all the states of all matter in the universe is stored in some kind of time dimension. Einstein’s theory doesn't describe any such phenomenon. What Einstein describes is time dilation which isn't the storage of information. Even if you look at time similarly as a spatial dimension it wouldn't have the property of a storage device. If you view space-time by virtue of cause and effect is a physical substance then it would have the same issue of state changes where information regarding a previous state is lost! There is no observable evidence to state that space-time have any different affect than the electron example. Space-time as all other artifacts of the universe change state and the information of previous states is lost.
Quote:
As for the Einstein situation, in his view of the universe it is possible for time warps to occur, where a person actually ends up in the past. My understanding of Physics is not brilliant so I quote other people to a certain extent, when discussing opinions, but I do feel that there is some optimism for time travel. If Backward Causation is real then so might be the chances of us actually accessing the past at some point.
Einstein in his later years rejected the notion of now but Einstein also could not accept quantum mechanics. So I have to conclude that Einstein’s opinion of time travel is at best suspicious and perhaps the last gasp of an aging scientist that could not accept that his theory would render itself useless at the microscopic scale and therefore grabbed on to any notion that would en-grander his theory. In effect perhaps Einstein felt threatened by QM and time travel was a means to show one up on the QM camp!
I have to say that the most likely theory to me is this.
If time travel were possible it would be much like the TV show sliders. Instead of traveling between past and present in (one reality) as iwanttotimetravel called it, the most likely option would be if we could travel through time we would in fact be traveling from one dimension to another. The problem with this is the following:
If we travel to another dimension, (there are an infinite number of dimensions, thus space-time is infinite) it would seem to us that it were identical to our own dimension in the past, afterall we controled when/where we wanted to go with our time machine. By our presence we changed that timeline, our knowledge of what the timeline should be if we truly existed in our original space/time dimension. To then travel back to our dimension we would have to travel back to the precise ( I mean no room for error) moment and location of our leaving. Even then the likelihood that we would actually be in our original space/time location is unlikely. Instead we would probably be in yet another new dimension that is just so similar to our original dimension that we probably wouldn't recognize a difference.
Now did our presence in any other dimension have any effect on that dimension, yes and no. Yes in the fact that our being there obviously would have a cause and effect relationship with every molecule we came into contact with. No in the matter that in order for all this to be true, we were predestined to come to that point of time/space because that is how that dimensional timeline existed.
The overall trouble with time travel is that one eventually comes to the conclusion that everything has to be predetermined for time to travel both ways (or even at all.)
The most likely truth is that time travel is impossible, except that we do it everyday, in that time keeps moving forward.
Interestingly enough, I'm the only scientist that I know of that has every knowingly done physical experiments in 4-d space (5-d if you include time) and can easily stretch that to as many dimensions as I want. I wish I could point you to my website to prove it, but yahoo canned it since I haven't worked on it in 2 plus years. Sorry, but if you are interested in what I did you can email me a cwess99_03atyahoodotcom and I'll try to explain it.
Time travel is all but simple, but the concept of Time is quiet simple.
Think of Time travel as a reaction of interstellar travel. To get to the center of our own Galaxy we will have to break this Greater than c threshold. When we travel at great distances at great speeds the effect is a shift in Time, as percieved by who or whatever is traveling. So, lets say we send a probe to explore the galaxy we reside. If this probe could travel faster than c, we could map our entire galaxy in months. When the probe returns to earth it will have aged in accordance to the distances and speeds traveled in its exploration, but to the point of view of those on Earth, it has only been months. The matter of the probe has experienced many years while the event percieved by us is only in months. This is only possible if we achieve greater than c speeds. How?
Understanding what we call the Higgs field.
If I can create a bubble in the Higgs field around me, my Matter would be vibrating at the speed of light. Once inside this bubble, Time is standing still from the inward perspective. Outside the bubble I have disappeared, my matter no longer exists on the plane of the real. The 3 dimensions we percieve, and is the reason why we only see in 3-D. Meanwhile, I'm still there in my bubble viewing Time as each instant it occures. Let's say I can move my bubble around at which each speed is s. From inside the Higg's field speed is = c+s. So, from the perspective inside the bubble, traveling mach 2 would be, the speed of light plus mach 2. Thus, a shift in Time has occurred, but only calculated by distance and speed. This is only possible if we can create a bubble in " the Higg's" field. How?
Understanding what we call electro-magnetism and gravity.
To reach the infinity threshold. Break down particles, and split them to the center of all the particles, because at the center is the only point that intersects both reality and non- reality, the six dimensions in a vaccum. 3 we see, and 3 we don't see. So, in my Higgs bubble I have crossed over to the other 3 dimesions that we call not Matter, or Dark Matter. My Matter no longer exists in normal reality, it has become Dark Matter.
The equation will never balance if half of the variables are never acounted for. Time travel is all quite simple, and no more impossible as crossing the Atlantic Ocean by wind and sail.
We can travel into the future of other things in a sense. By speeding up in space we catch up to time causing it to go slower than the clocks that are not moving through space as rapidly as we are. If our time is slower we will not percieve it by observing our clock alone. We would have to look at the slow moving clocks to see that they are blueshifted or aging more rapidly. So the rest of the world which is moving slow in space is moving ahead rapidly in time compared to us.
Tex?
I think that time moves at the fundamental constant known as the speed of light but that we can catch up to it. This gives all the results of Relativity except the reciprocity of the relativistic effects. Only one clock goes slow in the Twin phenomenon because only one clock travels rapidly through space-time. I believe Einstein was wrong to introduce the necesity of reciprocal effects. I believe the rapidly moving clock will always see the slow moving ones going faster. I say why shouldn't they? Einstein was wrong to think that physical laws are about such things as "appearences." Only the rapidly moving clock will see others blueshifted. And that is the only way to travel into the future; traveling rapidly through space. The problem is there is no way back; the rest of the universe has gone ahead.
Nick, I'm not an expert and you do seem to know about Einstein's relativity, but in the Twin paradox doesn't the clock that traveled with astronaut twin show a shorter time has elapsed than the other twin? And isn't this due to traveling through and away from strong gravitational fields which warp space-time? We know that the gravitational field you reside in causes time to travel at the speed you see it in (hence the atomic clock in the airplane traveling a few miles above the earth measured a difference in time because it measured gravity at a slight bit less than g.)
Nick, I'm not an expert and you do seem to know about Einstein's relativity, but in the Twin paradox doesn't the clock that traveled with astronaut twin show a shorter time has elapsed than the other twin? And isn't this due to traveling through and away from strong gravitational fields which warp space-time
You are confused cwes. Traveling toward greater gravity is moving into a slower time frame. You have confused two seperate phenomenon. Thanks for mentioning gravity though. I left that out. There are actually two ways to travel into the future of other things: one is by rapid motion and the other is by gravity. Get close enough to a black hole and your clock could be going billions of times slower than clocks not effected by gravity or motion.
Ok, so you are saying that the person traveling at high speeds relative to earth sees their own time travel by at what they believe to be a standard rate, this I agree with. You also believe that if they could see clocks on earth, they would see those clocks as if the clocks were hooked direct drive up to a 4.0L v-8 engine running at 5,000 rpm, this I also agree with (at least as far as the theory goes).
However, I must also point out the reason this is called a paradox is that the opposite must also hold true, that we are only talking about relativity. We are talking about two frames of reference relative to one another. By the same reasoning as above, the twin on earth sees their own clock traveling at what they believe to be a normal rate and the rate of the clock on their twin's ship turning at an absurd rate. This is where I break down and fail to understand the paradox.
As for gravity, this much I can understand. But I don't believe that gravity carries with it a paradox. The person in lower gravity still believes that time is continuing at it's usual pace but thinks that time in higher gravity is traveling too fast, while the person in higher gravity sees their own time continuing at a normal pace while the low grav clock seems to be creeping along.
The thing I disagree with is calling this time travel. If you would, we are all time travelers because we all travel forward through time every moment. Traveling at different velocities through time-space is nothing new either, just instead of the ground moving by at different paces, we have time moving at different paces while we cover the same distance.
You can travel into the future of other things at an accelerated rate if your clock is going slower than theirs. That's all I am saying cwes. This can be accomplished Either by moving through space faster than them or by entering a stonger gravity.
And you're right. Time moves forward in every direction you care to go. And the directions are curved as we learned from Einstein!
The directions are straight, the space is curved. Semantics
What is your definition of "directions" if they aren't spatial?
Directions can be curved and sometimes they're not. Drop an object and it speeds up but it doesn't follow a curve.
Einstein's gravity is not complete. It doesn't actually explain speed up in free fall where there is no curved path. It only explains curvilinear motion.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Predictions
Community
Links and Downloads
![[Valid RSS]](http://www.zapfuture.com/images/valid-rss.GIF "Validate my RSS feed")
![[Valid Atom 0.3]](http://www.zapfuture.com/images/valid-atom.GIF "Validate my Atom 0.3 feed")